Surround Panner Control via MIDI / Touch-Screen for D8B?

[Y-my-R]

I’m in the process of setting up a surround monitoring speaker setup, for use with my D8B. If used this way, you can keep using the regular channel panner to pan signals left and right… but if you want to pan signals front to back, you have to use the master-channel V-Pot for that. So, you’re operating 2 controls, that even the D8B manual calls out, is the “Etch-A-Scetch” method.

One way to get around this, is to map the X-Y axis of the surround panner in the D8B, to an X-Y MIDI controller. Such as a Korg Nanopad, or in my case, an old M-Audio Ozonic that I had lying around, that has a joystick MIDI controller on it.

The Ozonic spits out MIDI CCs 71 and 74 for the MIDI joystick by default, so I kept that. I had to reverse operation of the Left/Right axis on the MIDI controller since that worked in the opposite direction. Luckily, this is a simple change on this keyboard, by setting reverse Min and Max values for MIDI (put 127 were 0 was, and put 0 were 127 was).

Anyway, I took a quick video before shutting down, yesterday, but thought this might be interesting to share here:



I don’t actually have a question about the MIDI mapping above - that works great, and I'm sharing this more as a tip (of course you can map other parameters, too - I also have the control room level mapped, for example... but from a further away MIDI keyboard).

I have a derivative question, from playing with the MIDI surround panner, and now wonder about using the on-screen surround panner via a touch-screen monitor:

I had to add additional speakers to the bridge of my desk, and that left no space for the D8B monitor, without everything being way off center. Because of that, I moved my D8B monitor on a monitor stand that I put on the floor, and I actually really like it this way. However, now I keep wanting to touch that monitor to change settings, rather than reaching for the mouse, haha… so, I totally want a touch-screen monitor in that spot now!

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations for using a touch screen monitor with the D8B? I realize that the D8B won’t be able to do “multi-touch” since it’s original input method (mouse) only allows for one “touch”. But my experience with OLD touch-screens back in the late 90s was rather poor, so I'm hoping newer technology would work better (if a VGA input still exists).
Also, if compatible/working, I'm thinking I should look at multi-touch monitors, anyway… I see that many of those have multiple inputs. So, I could have the D8B on the VGA in, but have the HDMI or DisplayPort etc. jack, function as a secondary monitor for my computer, and control some DAW functions via the touch-screen as well...?

So, I’m thinking, maybe if I’d get a multi-touch capable display, I could use it to control the D8B or alternatively my DAW, at the push of a button. Did anyone try something like this with a monitor like that with their D8B and main music computer?

I read about it a little, and sounds like I will NOT need something like a Steven Slate Raven MTi… from what I read, you only need that to make multi-touch work in Pro Tools, since they don’t support multi-touch touch-screen support natively, and you have to have the display act as a control surface (i.e. the Raven).
I only use Pro Tools when I must (and just pay the subscription for that month, and then let it expire again), so, that’s not a factor for me at all. So, I wouldn’t want to pay extra for a Raven, if there’s no benefit to it, aside from better Pro Tools support (which I don’t care about).

Also, IF someone has been using the D8B with a touch-screen monitor… have you tried using the touch-screen with the surround panner? How does that work? Is it smooth? Is it better to stick with MIDI?

[doktor1360]

So, I’m thinking, maybe if I’d get a multi-touch capable display, I could use it to control the D8B or alternatively my DAW, at the push of a button. Did anyone try something like this with a monitor like that with their D8B and main music computer?

I read about it a little, and sounds like I will NOT need something like a Steven Slate Raven MTi… from what I read, you only need that to make multi-touch work in Pro Tools, since they don’t support multi-touch touch-screen support natively, and you have to have the display act as a control surface (i.e. the Raven).
I only use Pro Tools when I must (and just pay the subscription for that month, and then let it expire again), so, that’s not a factor for me at all. So, I wouldn’t want to pay extra for a Raven, if there’s no benefit to it, aside from better Pro Tools support (which I don’t care about).

Also, IF someone has been using the D8B with a touch-screen monitor… have you tried using the touch-screen with the surround panner? How does that work? Is it smooth? Is it better to stick with MIDI?

Dunno Y-my-R... maybe this particular display would work. It has a VGA port for the host, and also a USB port. My question would be where the serial conversion from 'touch' to 'click' of a mouse takes place. That, to my viewpoint, would most likely be where the rubber meets the road in all this. This in the details for that display:

"Flexible connectivity with USB and VGA port, USB port for touch, VGA port for display."

https://www.amazon.com/Inch-Touch-Screen-Display-Monitor/dp/B07TMYHZ58

Larger units are available from various manufacturers, but they can be priced pretty steeply too...

Back to the spec, that would indicate a 'USB mouse' is in play, which would certainly be a 'show stopper' unless it can be converted. Perhaps one of those inline USB->PS2 dongles will do the trick.

https://www.amazon.com/DGZZI-Adapter-Female-Converter-Keyboard/dp/B095GW6FSZ/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=usb+to+ps2+adapter&qid=1650898000&sr=8-4

Good chance you've probably already have one of those laying around somewhere...

Kewl stuff, man... keep the thread updated if you would...

[Y-my-R]

Thanks very much, Dok!

Yeah, I was demoing some Sharp branded touch-screen monitors at a trade-show back in the late 90s, where the music software company I worked for at the time, sent me for some "free" promotion and exposure, haha.
But back then, there was no multi-touch, and the whole experience was sluggish and not really suitable for practical use. Besides, the monitor beeped with a built-in speaker, every time you touched something and you couldn't turn that off... it was distracting and annoying.

Also, I had to "practice" to touch the display a certain way every time, to make it look like it works better than it actually does for visitors...
I hope the technology got a lot better since then... I wouldn't want a touch screen like the ones I was demoing back then. (But what was almost worse, was the repeated arguments I got into every day of the tradeshow with the Sharp guys, because I refused to wear a tie, hahaha. Bunch of stiffs).
(Coming to think of it, the touch-screen setup I demoed, used a "Cappuccino Mini PC" computer that was barely larger than a standard IDE harddrive, with a touch-pad right on top of it... all great ideas, but WAAAAAY to early to work right, hahaha).

Thanks for the link you shared, Dok! That one seems to only have a VGA input, though. I was hoping that a newer "Multi-Touch" capable screen would work... so that I could switch the input on the monitor, and have it be a touch-interface for my DAW computer as well. So, maybe something like this one (VGA, HDMI and DVI inputs):

https://tinyurl.com/mwd3fdu3

Did anybody ever try something like that with a D8B?

As for the USB output on the touchscreen for mouse movements... I'm HOPING that this outputs the same stuff an actual USB mouse would output... and not something that requires a Windows (or Mac) driver to be installed on the connected computer, to "translate" the on-screen mouse/touch movements.
If a driver would be needed, then this will surely NOT work, since there won't be a driver for the D8B OS.
That'll be something I'll need to look into seriously, before spending the money (e.g. read the touchscreen manual, etc.)

As for the D8B accepting USB... the mainboard has a USB header on it, and I added 2 USB ports to the back of my Windows 98-converted D8B computer this way (and it works with a USB mouse in Win98).
I don't have USB ports on my "daily driver" D8B, yet, but adding ports shouldn't be a problem.

Honestly, I had assumed that the mouse will work via USB with the D8B, but when searching the forum for this, I found my own post where I asked that years ago, and then pointed out that I only got a USB-Keyboard to work, but not the mouse.. seems like I tried this a long time ago.

I use an ancient KVM (Protec Bytelan) for my D8B, HDR and Win98 (based on D8B rack unit) machines, that has VGA, PS2 and DIN connectors on it. The mouse I use with that KVM, is USB with a USB->PS/2 adapter on it, and that works fine with those machines.

I guess I can try to add the same kind of USB->PS/2 adapter to the USB cable coming out from the touch screen monitor and going into the KVM. If it directly sends "mouse data", then I guess I should be good.

Anyway - thanks for the response... this helped me think this through a little further and gives me some things to try and research. Thanks again, Dok!

[captainamerica]

I use a trackball with my d8b via connector converter?

[doktor1360]

I use a trackball with my d8b via connector converter?

Yup... that's what I was suggesting for adapting the USB output of the touch screen ('touch/click') to the serial input of the D8B... I don't have a much direct experience with late model LED touch screens, but everything I've seen so far basically uses a USB port for supporting the 'touch' input of the display employed... pretty standard stuff, again to my understanding and brief reconnaissance. The conversion from 'touch to click' is handled by the display internals and simply sent down the serial comm link to the host (ie. D8B), where it's then just handled as a standard mouse click by the OS. The VGA out seals the deal, no conversion required in terms of signalling... but wait...

"if a large screen led display is used... won't the resolution from the D8B look like sh*t?" you may ask?!? Yeah, it probably will... and/or if you have a unit with no VGA port available, what then you may also ask. Well, I'm using a 40" LED display for my D8B/HDR setup and I discovered this snag as I was working out the details of my own architecture. Pissed me off (temporarily) until I found this magical little piece of gear:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NJMWLR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

AC_SL1000.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 970 times

This'll git er done... for me, the only thing this is 'missing' is a mini-DisplayPort interface (Mac Mini h/w), but a) I don't believe such a device is available and b) it would open another can o' worms - unless the switch itself provided the conversion required. That's a tall f'n order, but I digress... I run the HDMI out to the 40" LED, the switch does all the conversion/syncing to the video signal and it's FLAWLESS. I have a full 1080p display of the console, with no VGA syncing funk. The key is in the conversion... and this switch really excels in this very area. It's a bit pricey, but worth every peso and the peace of mind it brings for me as well, IMHO...

As always, the caveat - but you knew it was coming so here it is:
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

[Y-my-R]

Thanks again, Captain and Dok!

I researched touch-screen monitors a bit more, and it sounds like they typically output "regular" mouse data on their USB out. So, in theory, this should work "like a mouse" with the D8B, when using a USB->PS/2 adapter. Looks promising!

After a little research, I'm now considering this monitor, because of the price vs features (about 250 USD, depending on where you buy):
https://www.asus.com/us/Displays-Deskto ... ch/VT229H/

From reading up on it, it sounds like you need to double-tap to click. Not sure what I'll need to do for a double-click... triple-tap?
Anyway... I'm a little broke from buying a set of surround speakers, so the touch-screen has to wait for another month or so... but I'm pretty set on giving this a try!

Also, thanks very much, Dok, for sharing info on that video switcher. I might end up getting that one as well - it looks like it could be very practical and useful. I'll get the touch-screen monitor first and hook it up directly to the D8B and my DAW computer, to try how that works, though... but if it doesn't look right, or if switching is a pain directly from the monitor, then there's a good chance that I'll get that switcher as well! (I just wouldn't like that I'd still have to switch the keyboard and mouse (via touch screen) output from a separate K(V)M... but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Anyway... there'll be a touch screen connected to my D8B in the future. Just not in the immediate future due to lack of funds