unreliable, (to working)

[phantomrage]

My d8b is getting unreliable at best.

Between locking up or parts just seeming to turn off..

On startup, I have to reboot it 5 or more times to get one working boot. More so random channel meters peg out the display (or random signal displays) and it just sticks that way. But the OS seems to work, I can not clear it, so power off and on again.

Is this a sign of the power rail capacitors going out?

Yes, I cleaned and mess with the BFC a lot, seems to not have much of a effect.

New problem I am having just started today.
When I run a project with a full 24 tracks, the d8b will freeze up, but the software side of it keep working. I can do everything with the mouse and keyboard. just the board itself is frozen..

[doktor1360]

My d8b is getting unreliable at best.

Between locking up or parts just seeming to turn off..

On startup, I have to reboot it 5 or more times to get one working boot. More so random channel meters peg out the display (or random signal displays) and it just sticks that way. But the OS seems to work, I can not clear it, so power off and on again.

Is this a sign of the power rail capacitors going out?

Yes, I cleaned and mess with the BFC a lot, seems to not have much of a effect.

New problem I am having just started today.
When I run a project with a full 24 tracks, the d8b will freeze up, but the software side of it keep working. I can do everything with the mouse and keyboard. just the board itself is frozen..

At face value, it appears you may have different problems stemming from different issues with the hardware...

Here's a coupla things that need to be sussed out firstly... are you booting the D8B's host cpu with a hard disk drive? If so, that may or may not ultimately be the crux of the issue, but it will be at some point. The suggestion here (highly recommended) would be to upgrade the boot disk to a compact flash card. My personal experience in this regard is that it all but eliminates 'lock ups', and when the rare occasion arises that it does lock up, I simply shut it down... remove the AC cable from the rear of the cpu and walk away for 5 minutes. Upon return, I simply plug it back up and reboot... and it automagically returns to normal operations... your actual mileage may vary...

In reference to the other issues, the meters 'pegging' would most likely be voltage related - but that doesn't necessarily indicate capacitor failure(s). The BFC is responsible for applying the voltages used inside the console, the data cable is just that... for data, it also handles the serial communications between the console and the host (mouse, keyboard). Overall, it seems like you may have a combination of both voltage and communication related issues.

If something like this was occurring to me (and I've had similar experiences) I would open and clean up the console first... disconnecting, cleaning and reconnecting every cable that's reasonably possible. I always re-seat and ensure that there isn't any unnecessary stress/strain on the BFC and data cables as well. If I got this far and things are still problematic, then I would begin w the operating system itself... reinstall it on different media, another hard disk (if available). At that point, if the hardware will boot and subsequently display on the software interface on a monitor and it's still not responding, that's when the serial communications between console and host cpu become suspect... and it could be a myriad of related things. It becomes time to "eat the elephant one bite at a time..."

Apologies for appearing to be 'nebulous' in responding, it's difficult not being physically present to actually view what's taking place. However, just walk thru any triage process and start posting back here the results. The care and feeding of these things can be arduous, but this forum and the people contributing here will help ya out greatly if you give things a proper chance...

As always, for transparency purposes :
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

[phantomrage]

Thanks for the reply.

I may be having more than one issue that is for sure. I understand the consoles are old so this is to be expected from time to time.

I don't have a CF to IDE at the moment. I was trying to get it to work on the SD to IDE card that I use in the HDR and MDR, but for some reason, the d8b does not like it. About the hard drive. It is the original one so I am well aware it will die at some point. While I had the unit open I pulled the drive and did some checks on it with gsmartcontrol and it has a good bill of heath. On the list of to do is the CF card.

I have had this board for a while but never used it as I was in a apartment so it was stored. I cleaned and checked the BFC, but this go around I busted out the bottle of PureTronics and a few brushes and went to town on both ends cleaning and checking pins. It is too early to tell but it seems that may have helped the voltage issues.

My next task is going to be pull the cards and clean the contacts. I rather not open it up if I do not have to. But I if it does not help the situation then that will be next, clean inside and re seat everything that I can.

Getting all this working again has been challenging to say the least. I am not looking forward to the day I need to rebuild all the faders as I have already taken one all the way down. (Old photos on a very old thread on the forum somewhere)

and as a update, I booted the d8b, loaded a project and started mixing. The dreaded lockup, all meters froze and non of the buttons would respond. Then all the console lights went dark other than the rude solo light and the VFD, Yet, the OS works fine and I can use the mouse and keyboard like normal.

Just when I hoped I had it.....

[Y-my-R]

A similar issue has been cropping up for me over the past week or so… but I’m in the middle of a project, and hope to be able to finish it, before having to take the desk apart *again* (quite honestly, I’m getting pretty tired of it, and am playing with the thought of moving away from the D8B on the medium term… it’s great when it works, but the times I have to open it and fix, seem to get more and more frequent).

Anyway, I get a similar symptom as you do (some meters stuck when booting, but fully boots… but to be able to use it, I have to shut down once or twice, and start again).

However, this combines with a different issue for me that prevents the desk from booting after it happens - but this appears to be a thermal issue. If I run the desk for some hours, send a mix through the D8B’s S/PDIF out and record it on a different device (e.g. DAW computer), the signal sometimes gets garbled. This seems to be the first indicator I get, while the desk is running.

I suspected an issue with Word Clock synch, but when I try to change the clock source to internal and back to external when that happens (I always run the desk as “slave” to an external word clock generator), all kinds of meters get stuck… so, that’s not a fix.
When I try to restart after that, the D8B flashes a few meters and gives out a thumping sound, similar to how it looks like when the rail caps are going (although I didn’t see that first hand, myself… fits the description, though).
The first time this happened, I let it sit over night and it worked again, normally.

The problem already came back the next day, though (after booting twice, to get rid of stuck meters). Again, the first symptom was, that a mix I sent out via the S/PDIF output on the D8B, was recorded garbled on the other end.
This time, I figured I’d shut down instead of changing the clock source and the re-start. This gave the same result as the day before, though… flashing meters, thumping sound.
I had to finish that mix on the same day (nothing final, but I had to send an early version somewhere), so I tried booting the D8B again a couple of times after around 10, 20 and 30 minutes, but it still did the same thing. When I waited over an hour, it turned on normally again, and I was able to export/send the mix over S/PDIF and it sounded normal.

Glad I got that done on that day, but I almost missed a deadline and that really annoyed the heck out of me…

I agree with the Dok, that it’s likely something that could be resolved by cleaning and re-seating the contacts in the console (and reseating the cards, etc. as you mentioned, is also always a good idea)… although my thermal issue is likely something else and will need a component replacement (I didn’t have any thermal issues with the same setup, before, and the AC was on and the room cool enough… not sure why this started, all of a sudden).

Anyway… I’m not done with the project I’m on, so I can’t do any serious troubleshooting on my desk, right now. I have two spare consoles and rack units that “somewhat” work, though… so, I’m more likely to swap out either the whole console or rack unit (depending on which one fixes the issue… replacing the rack is easier for me), before I try to take a deep dive into what may be going on, here.

Quite honestly, though… I get the feeling that there’s maybe like, 5 people left who are active on this forum, that help each other keep their D8Bs running. I like tweaking and fixing up old technology, but start wondering if this is a losing battle and if I need to make some major changes to my studio setup, soon (aka no more old Mackie mixers).

I’ll be around for a while longer, though… because it’s also a budget question, hahaha… but if the D8B is part of a setup that needs to work to make deadlines, and it keeps acting up, it just doesn’t really feel like it’s worth it anymore, to me. Too bad… I was SO happy with the general workflow with my current setup…

Anyway - best of luck with getting your D8B to run reliable again, Phantomrage… I hope next time I’ll take mine apart, it will run for a year without issues, or the next time will start a count-down for me…

[phantomrage]

So, after cleaning all the cards and re connecting the word clock card same issue happens.

At around the same time in the project the system locks up, yet if I run just a few channels it will run fine all day. What is really tripping me out, is the fact I can use the keyboard and mouse and do everything and it will work, pass audio, all if it, meters on the screen it all works. Just the console locks up. it will pass audio into the board from all the inputs, it will pass audio both to and from the HDR via the ADAT signal.

I wonder if my clock card is bad?

[captainamerica]

I had similar issues many years ago which required replacing all the ribbon cables, along with basic cleaning maintenance.

[Y-my-R]

I have 3 Apogee Clock cards from the 3 D8B systems I have. The type of issue I'm seeing, doesn't change if I swap clock cards... but yours might have a different cause. But if some channels are passing audio just fine while others don't, it doesn't sound like there's "bad clock" coming from the card... IF clock related, I'd rather think that the clock doesn't reach to every component in the D8B at the needed signal strength... so, this would circle back to the connections (and ribbon cables) inside the console.

FWIW, I have always kept the bottom lid on the D8B, to prevent RF interference etc., to potentially impact the audio passing through it... but next time I take the D8B console out of my Argosy desk to work on it, I think I'll leave the bottom lid of. The way those Argosy desks work, you can crawl under and reach the underside of the D8B (it's a PITA, but possible). If the lid wasn't on, on the bottom right now, I could re-seat ribbon cables without even moving the desk... so, I'll try doing that, when I start troubleshooting my "similar" issue.
Has anyone tried running their D8B with the bottom lid off? Any impact on the audio quality - like, increased interference or picking up radio or something, haha?

[Phil.c]

If you have re-seated and just cleaned the connetors, this is not good enough, as I have stated many times, the ribbons need to be lifted off the spikes as they can tarnish, ISP dropped in there and squeezed back with a pliers, I'm not saying that this is your problem, just what needs to be done.

[doktor1360]

Generally speaking, personal experience (manufacturing) with clock cards and the components involved is that initially the crystal oscillator (quartz) used for timing on the card itself will begin to drift over time... and that's gonna f*ck things up royally, due to the fact that the common engineering for these types of circuits is that any/all components rely on that onboard clock circuitry to be stable (crystal and the related discrete components involved), as that frequency gets 'divided down' time-wise to ensure any component used on that card gets reliable and stable clocking. This all happens before it even hits the bnc connectors on the rear of the card. I'd honestly have to look at the prints for the apogee card to confirm this, but I'd be willing to bet this is close to the case, if not dead on...

What does that mean here? Hell if I know exactly (LOL), only that I also have clocking anomalies of my own - the D8B just REFUSES to allow it's circuits to be clocked externally, and I have multiple clock cards and two desks as well to confirm that. In truth, it could be anything discussed here so far. From a triage process there's just so many variables involved that can get frustrating (as most of us have experienced). It can certainly provide headaches on any given session... ya just have to eat the elephant one bite at time to get to the bottom of things...

Step #1 of my own ongoing usage and maintenance procedure workflow has always been to keep the damn thing CLEAN. We all know that can get really involved, so I schedule it usually every year. In between, cover it up (dust cover) when not being used and exercising the fader calibration at the beginning of any session. The hardware tech is already as upgraded / updated to be on the cutting edge (stable) as I see possible at the moment...

Bottom line, I just get things in working order and do what I can to maintain it...

And I feel ya Y-my-R, that 'day' you mentioned could certainly arrive... and maybe soon. I've already laid a lot of the groundwork for that, however I still continue to 'whistle thru the graveyard'... *winks - grins nervously* \m/

But of course, 'yadda yadda yadda':
[Standard Mgmt Disclaimer] - "Your actual mileage may vary..."

[phantomrage]

I will post more on this when I get back in town.

Yes, a full open and cleaning of all connections is in the list of items to do.

Will update in a few days.

Thanks to all who have replied thus far.