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Lost first 8 channels

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Lost first 8 channels

Postby arjepsen » Tue May 23, 2017 5:43 pm

Hey. Hope someone has some clever thoughts....
I got an opt-24 installed.
After my last fiddlings inside my HDR, I apparently lost out/in on the first 8 channels....
The rest seems fine.
I REALLY hope it isn't something broken on my opt-24 - they seem very scarce these days.... :?

I read in the HDR technical reference, that disfunctional channels could be a problem with the ribbon cables going to the clock card. However, one cable is inputs, the other outputs - I've lost both in and out on the first 8 channels, so I fear it not just the ribbon cables.
There are some red diodes on the clock card going on and off during boot, but I can't find any info on them.

Anyone?
arjepsen
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby Bruce Graham » Wed May 24, 2017 4:44 am

Hey ajepsen;

I would suggest starting with easy to access and change things, like cables and cards.

Change cables and see if the fault follows. For example swap cable between 1-8 (not working) and 17-24 (working). See if the fault remains in the same place or moves. If it moves, then the cable are suspect. If it stays, try swapping cards, first on the HDR, as above (1-8 & 17-24). Make sure you put the original cables back on the original I/O.

If this doesn't work then open things up and check ribbon cables etc.

Have you looked in the Data Base at the top of the forum? Lots and lots of info in there.

Post back.

Cheers
Bruce
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby arjepsen » Wed May 24, 2017 7:47 am

thanks so much for your reply.
I did track it down to the first 8 channels both in and out.
I did try to remove the opt-24 card, and install an opt-8 card in the card cage instad, and there was trouble too. When I install it in the first slot, i get constant glitches on it its outputs. (didn't bother trying the inputs also).
So I presume now, that the opt-24 is ok.
I don't think it's the ribbon cables. (I checked continuity, and one cable is in, the other is outs... my problem is all 8 channels both in and out).
I presume the problem might be with either the clock card, or the card cage pcb board, or maybe even the pcb board fro the front panel?

I've pulled cards and cables out and reseated them till my fingers bled... no difference.
All this like one week after I finally got the HDR modded to the point where everything was the way i wanted it.

Now I'm wondering whether I should buy another used one for spare parts, or instead looking for a different product.
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby Bruce Graham » Wed May 24, 2017 2:29 pm

Hey arjepsen;

I am not a clock expert but I think if the clock wasn't working properly, it would affect all I/O and not just 1, unless there was a clocking problem with the card or the cage.

I have heard of issue with the cage on d8b's (the efx card cage mostly), but it is possible for the I/O cages to have issues as well.

When checking the ribbon cables it is also for the contact to the mother board (or whatever) to be solid as well. A good quality contact cleaner, if you didn't use any, can help. It is good that pin to pin contact on the ribbon cables is ruled out. As Mike Rivers points out, "most of the problems in an HDR are contact problems".

Be patient with the machine, sometimes it takes persistence and many "do-overs" to solve a problem. I just went through that with my HDR. I got it working, but I can't what it was that I did that make it work!

I to, am thinking of an HDR for parts! I have another 2 d8b's for parts but no HDR. Still thinking about it.

Post back with you progress.

Cheers
Bruce
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby arjepsen » Thu May 25, 2017 11:26 am

Well, in the whole process I did discover one interesting thing, even though it did nothing to solve the problem:
When using an opt-24, the cardcage pcb is actually not needed. It seems to be enough to simply connect the opt-24 to the clock card.
This is nice, since I removed the whole cardcage except for the pcb.

Anyways, the opt-24 has three adat i/o ports. (3 in 3out).
Only one pair isn't working - the other two seems to be fine.
The rest of the HDR system seems to be fine - the meters show activity both on the front and in the software.
Only, no output or input on that one pair.
However, clock signal IS sent over that pair.

Again, if I remove the opt-24, and instead connect one opt-8, in the "offending" position, I get random clicks and glithces - very typical for clock problems - but the glitches are only there on those specific 8 channels - the others work just fine.

To me that points quite a bit at the clock card.
If I understand the service manual correctly, one ribbon cable is inputs, the other outputs. If it was a bad ribbon cable, I believe it would just be either inputs or outputs that didnt' work. But here the problem is all eight channels on that particular adat port - both in and out.

So by process of elimination, I believe the problem is around the clock card.
The problem is the same, whether I connect to the d8b or to my motu 1248, regardless of which device is set as master or slave. (In my experience, if the problem is clock glitches, then the problem will be on all channels, but I would still get normal audio with all the glitches. Here I get NO audio out or in).

I've cleaned the contacts on the clock card before, and don't think they would get bad over a few months. But to be certain, I'll try cleaning them.
By the way, I've also tried moving the clock card (and also the opt-24) to other pci slots, and everything is just the same.
Good thing is it seems the clock card and opt-24 doesn't necessarily have to be in the first two slots, so this could give a bit of cooling space for the graphics card. But again, this indicates that the problem is not with the motherboard slots - again pointing to the clock card having a malfunction. :cry:

(Maybe I'll try smacking the machine with a chicken filet while I'm at it, just to try something.....)
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby Bruce Graham » Thu May 25, 2017 8:32 pm

Hey ajepsen;

Sorry I miss read what you posted. I saw opt-24 but was thinking 3 opt-8's.

Not sure about the opt-24. No experience with it. I do know there are members on this forum who have this card, or at least experience with it, but not sure who it is. Hopefully they will join in and help out when they see your post.

I see how you thinking goes re clock issue but don't have enough experience with this type of problem to help.

Best of luck and sorry I couldn't help any further.

Cheers
Bruce
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby arjepsen » Mon May 29, 2017 10:33 pm

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

AND.... I have learned 3 new things:

1: I'm an idiot.
2: I'm bad at counting.
3: Reading the numbering on the ports on the back of the opt-24 is a good idea.
4: If there is nothing playing on channel 17-24..... well... then there is NO activity on channel 17-24.
5: If no wave files are on channel 17-24, then nothing is playing on those channels.
6: Channel 1-8 is not channel 17-24.
7: The reverse is true, though not necessarily in the chronologial order.

On the bright side, I'm now the proud owner of two new (used) machines - an HDR and an MDR, so I've got spareparts for the future. :-D

Good thing is that all this messing around made me realize a few cooling optimizations for my HDR.
I'll attach a photo of the current innards.
The "missing" cables, cardcage, etc. are all things that aren't needed with the opt-24.

By the way - anyone know if there's any advantage in upgrading the memory higher than 256mb?? (since I now have more ram sticks...)
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Fil 29-05-2017 22.30.59.jpeg
Fil 29-05-2017 22.30.59.jpeg (Array MiB) Viewed 327 times
arjepsen
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Re: Lost first 8 channels

Postby Bruce Graham » Tue May 30, 2017 5:34 am

Hey arjepsen;;

There is no advantage. The HDR will only recognise the 256.

You should purchase Mike River's book on the HDR from Cafe Press. The "Last Hard Disk Recorder Manual". Well worth the price.

Glad you are up and running.

Cheers and most of us have made an error, or two.
Bruce
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