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d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:27 pm

I've also asked on the Sonar X1/X2 forum here -

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2783208
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:11 pm

@Peter,

A few new pieces of information about the "Please initialize your DAW." message in the VFD lower line...

I did try flipping around the MIDI port I/O assignments in D8Bridge as you suggested and got kind of what I expected, channels 1, 2, 3, etc. wound up on channels 17, 18, 19, etc. when the console was initialized, so I put the MIDI ports back as they were.

Just for giggles and grins, when I booted up the DAW and saw the "Please initialize your DAW." message in the VFD, I went into Sonar | Utilities | Mackie Control surface setup (already done in a past session) and went through the motions of Configure Layout (tweaking pot 1 for MCU 1, pot 9 for MCU 2, etc.). When I left the MCU configure utility the message disappeared from the VFD. So it seems that the setup I did just once in Sonar Producer 8.5.3 I now have to do for every time I boot Sonar X2a, including existing project files that have already been opened. This is not changing the MCU mapping in Sonar, it's just re-saving it for every time the DAW is booted up. I can actually not tweak the pots once in the MCU configure and then leave the MCU configure and the message still goes away with no changes made.

Just to double check, I closed down the Sonar X2a session having first saved it, shutdown D8Bridge, restarted D8Bridge, then restarted the Sonar X2a session. Same thing happened. The message "Please initialize your DAW." appeared in the VFD and the only way to get rid of the message was to reconfigure the MCU through Sonar's MCU configure GUI.

To be clear, there seems to be nothing that is not configured properly (faders and buttons mapped to tracks, etc.), there's just the annoying message to initialize the DAW when it is already initialized.

Big fun, huh? Still doesn't sort out the SELECT button weirdness, but I think another bug has been identified in Sonar's MCU implementation, at least a bug in my little world. Thanks.
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby Petersueco » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:38 am

I did some reading over at the Cakewalk forum and found another thread where they were seeing some other issues with Sonar X2's MCU implementation.

I expect Marc will pop in with some more insights. I don't use Sonar so I'm not of very much help here.

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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:57 am

bitSync wrote:@Peter,

...but I think another bug has been identified in Sonar's MCU implementation, at least a bug in my little world.


That may be too hasty. Another bug has been found in the Sonar X2 / MCU / D8Bridge implementation. It would be premature to attribute the bug to Sonar X2. I confirmed with an MCU user on the Sonar X2 forum that he is able to use the MCU SELECT buttons successfully with Sonar X2, so it seems there is a difference between how the MCU interacts with Sonar X2 and how D8Bridge interacts with Sonar X2. I'm disappointed to know that the SELECT button works fine with an MCU but not with D8Bridge with Sonar X2.

I feel like in order to understand what's going on I've got to invest in MIDI comms and serial comms troubleshooting software and spend my time to troubleshoot what should be a rock-solid standard MCU interface for some pretty expensive software. I'd really rather be recording...
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:49 pm

There's some feedback from two Sonar X2a MCU users who confirm that the track SELECT buttons still work on their MCUs with Sonar X2a -

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2783208&mpage=1#

It seems as though something has changed between Sonar Producer 8.5.3 and Sonar X2/X2a in the MCU MIDI communications and initialization that doesn't adversely affect track SELECT buttons for the MCU but that does adversely affect track SELECT buttons for D8Bridge.

There also seems to be something different in the MCU initialization that causes D8Bridge to behave differently - the new message "Please initialize your DAW." in the VFD lower line, resolvable only by going into the Sonar X2a Mackie MCU | Configure menu every time the DAW is started up on a new or existing project file.
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby Marc Girard » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Hello guys,

I'm sorry if not as active as I used to be, there's many changes in my personal life happening and that keeps me away...

Now, I still don't have Sonar X2 (I'm still on 8.5!) I'll have to upgrade it. It's really strange that Sonar suddenly stops working with the new version has the MCU protocol is strict. I'll have to investiguate on this.
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:32 pm

Marc Girard wrote:Hello guys,

I'm sorry if not as active as I used to be, there's many changes in my personal life happening and that keeps me away...

Now, I still don't have Sonar X2 (I'm still on 8.5!) I'll have to upgrade it. It's really strange that Sonar suddenly stops working with the new version has the MCU protocol is strict. I'll have to investiguate on this.


Hi Marc,

FYI, I had achieved a very high degree of integration between D8Bridge 1.1 x32 and Sonar Producer 8.5.3 x64 on Win7 x64. I can't remember if there was anything not working, maybe just the RUDE SOLO light IIRC (does the MCU even have a RUDE SOLO light?).

So as to not overstate things, it's not like "Sonar suddenly stops working..." in X2/X2a. For the most part my D8Bridge / Sonar X2a integration is highly functional - MUTE, SOLO, PAN, REC, faders, transport controls, JOG/SCRUB, LED meters, etc. all seem very happy (I have yet to explore the D8Bridge mapped function buttons). There are just a few new wrinkles with the D8Bridge / X2a integration that are not present with the current MCU / X2a integration, namely (1) the track SELECT buttons no longer work with D8Bridge (but they do on an MCU), and (2) I now have to go in and reconfigure the Mackie control surface every time I start Sonar X2a rather than doing it once and being done; this latter action is to eliminate a new "Please initialize your DAW." message in the second line of the VFD that was never there in previous versions of Sonar (Is D8Bridge the origin of this string into the VFD or is D8Bridge just passing it along from Sonar?). The fact that the track SELECT buttons work on the MCU and they don't on D8Bridge leads me to believe that D8Bridge and the MCU are handling the MIDI comms differently.

Just so you don't feel too badly, it also seems there may be some funky stuff happening with X2a for MCU users as well, although no reports of problems with track SELECT buttons. It seems something changed in the MCU interface for X2/X2a that D8Bridge was not expecting or was not coded for. Whether the Sonar X2a MCU interface is compliant or not, who knows (well, I guess you would know), but X2a MCU users who are having no problem with SELECT buttons are reporting difficulties with some of the more advanced features of the MCU control surface.

Is there such a thing as a published MCU MIDI interface specification for writers of DAWs and translation programs, etc.?

Would it be helpful to you to have a MIDI-OX hex capture of the Sonar X2a initialization MIDI comms with D8Bridge? Same question for SELECT button press MIDI comms in X2a?

Thank you for your attention to this.
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:41 am

Here's a MIDI SysEx dump for the D8Bridge Track 1 SELECT talking to Sonar X2a ("Chorus (1)") -

Code: Select all
F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 20 54 72 61 63 6B 20 31 3A 20 22 21 43 68 6F 72 75 73 20 28 31 29 22 20 20 20 20 F7 F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 43 68 6F 72 73 31 20 44 72 70 5A 6E 31 20 54 58 36 34 31 50 20 54 72 58 36 34 31 F7

Here's a MIDI SysEx dump for the D8Bridge Track 2 SELECT talking to Sonar X2a ("DropZone 1") -

Code: Select all
F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 20 54 72 61 63 6B 20 32 3A 20 22 44 72 6F 70 5A 6F 6E 65 20 31 22 20 20 20 20 20 F7 F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 43 68 6F 72 73 31 20 44 72 70 5A 6E 31 20 54 58 36 34 31 50 20 54 72 58 36 34 31 F7

Here's a MIDI SysEx dump for the D8Bridge Track 3 SELECT talking to Sonar X2a ("TruePianos_64 1 Primary Output: Stereo") -

Code: Select all
F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 20 54 72 61 63 6B 20 33 3A 20 22 54 72 75 65 50 69 61 6E 6F 73 5F 78 36 34 20 31 20 50 72 69 6D 61 72 79 20 4F 75 74 70 75 74 3A 20 53 74 65 72 65 6F 22 F7 F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 43 68 6F 72 73 31 20 44 72 70 5A 6E 31 20 54 58 36 34 31 50 20 54 72 58 36 34 31 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 F7

Here's a MIDI SysEx dump for the D8Bridge Track 4 SELECT talking to Sonar X2a ("TruePianos_64 1") -

Code: Select all
F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 20 54 72 61 63 6B 20 34 3A 20 22 54 72 75 65 50 69 61 6E 6F 73 5F 78 36 34 20 31 22 F7 F0 00 00 66 14 12 00 43 68 6F 72 73 31 20 44 72 70 5A 6E 31 20 54 58 36 34 31 50 20 54 72 58 36 34 31 20 F7

I hope these are helpful.
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby bitSync » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:23 am

An update -

I had removed the Frontier TranzPort control surface from Sonar X2a while I was troubleshooting the X2a D8Bridge integration. Last night I went to add it back in as a control surface and that did not go well. The control surface name was in parentheses (I have no idea what that means except it's not normal) and the I/O I assigned to the TranzPort would not stick. Tonight I reinstalled the TranzPort device driver and I got the TranzPort control surface assigned in addition to D8Bridge. Weird thing is, once I booted the DAW with the TranzPort control surface added back in, the "Please initialize your DAW." message vanished from the VFD lower line, now replaced by "Pan" for each of the existing tracks. This stuff is so hyper tweakish...

Still no track SELECT buttons...
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Re: d8b Select Button / Sonar X2

Postby Axeman098 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:55 pm

Cakewalk DID change something in the MCU implimentation on X2, I don't know if this was addressed with X2a, as the focus of the "A" update was mostly Touch screen functionality along with many little improvements. There is much chatter on the Cakewalk forums about MCU issues. I'm wondering if something in the Touchscreen functionality altered the MCU functionality somehow? When you added the other Control surface back in and the original message disapeared, do you still have to reconfigure the D8Bridge everytime you start?
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